DOOBIEXX  that was posted in 2007... Get more up to date info to share before yelling fire.  
(Version 1.5b5)

DONMONTALVO  APE is still a huge problem. Call Apple and ask them what they think.

Don  
(Version 1.5b5)

NICHOLAS RILEY  Do you have an example of this? I both wrote ICeCoffEE and use MacSpeech Dictate, and haven't noticed any problems. If I can fix the problem, or help Unsanity to fix the problem, please let me know.  
(Version 1.5b3)

PETER DA SILVA  You can tell APE not to run in specific applications, have you tried that?  
(Version 1.5b4)

JIMW  Yes I have, but APE can still be an issue according to MacSpeech. My testing of the former version indicates that they may be correct on this. However I find Dictate to be unstable, even without APE at times. It seems to function more like a Beta then a Final Release. My feeling from their support is that it is very sensitive to anything that does not follow Mac Programming Guidelines 110% - which even Apple sometimes does not do. I may test APE again with ICeCoffEE again when time permits, but while I miss ICeCoffEE, I consider Dictate the more important of the 2 choices right now. Hopefully Dictate will get some of its bugs worked out eventually and I will be able to run both without issue.   
(Version 1.5b4)

WOODEN BRAIN CONCEPTS  As far as I can understand it, any process that performed the function that this does would have to somehow insert itself into other applications, which is what APE already does. It's true that APE can cause conflicts (and also true you can exclude applications) but I'd much rather rely on APE from a solid entity and run so many people than encourage lots of separate developers to duplicate what it already does and cause lots more potential instability.  
(Version 1.5b4)

JIMW  I agree. Unfortunately MacSpeech seems to have tunnel vision on this subject reflected by their position that they will only support their products stability and performance in a pristine Mac, environment - something that more often than is not reality. Given that it is the only viable text to speech solution for the Mac platform, I hesitate to argue with them about this too much, or strongly discourage users from its purchase, Should MacSpeech cease to exist, so will speech to text conversion for the Mac. Sometime you just have to choose battles worth winning and consider the consequences that might be produced by such a battle. Hopefully over a period of time with enough 'gentle prodding' MacSpeech will realize the error of its ways, and concentrate of making their software solid and reliable rather than adding bloat and accessories. That should only come after the have a solid reliable foundation with their basic product, so that users can rely and depend on its basic functionality. Such a paradigm my not result in quick profits, but should encourage solid consistent growth. If such a paradigm will not support their cash flow, then they are probably undercapitalized or need to balance their expenses better. Building a successful ship is very difficult to do if try to do it in the middle of the ocean. If you want to build a great ship, you need good facilities in a safe harbor. Otherwise the ship is likely to flounder.   
(Version 1.5b4)

PETER DA SILVA  Even if this didn't use APE it would still have to use some kind of code injection, and MacSpeech would still object to it. If you have problems with MacSpeech software that seem related to it, then disable it for that program and if that fixes the problem just uninstall it before sending them any *other* trouble reports. If that doesn't fix the problem, then removing it won't either, so either way as long as you remove it before you send them any trouble reports you should be fine.  
(Version 1.5b4)

JIMW  Thanks for the tips. I will use them when I get the time and the nerve to try APE again with Dictate. One of the things that I fear is corrupting my speech profile as the program crashes. I have added a number of customized commands to it and MacSpeech, after over 6 months since release has yet to provide a way of exporting or saving them to prevent loss. But then again they have also failed so far to provide and word training or spelling correction as promised last January. Actually I rarely submit bugs to them, given their attitude which reminds me of the following quip:

A proud mother and her friend was watching a parade in which her son was in the marching band. As the band passed by she waved to her son and remarked to her friend - Look! Everybody in the band is out of step except my Johnny.

Besides, give the issues with the program, I would be spending a significant amount of time reporting bugs instead of using the product. Being a professional tester myself, I get paid to do this as opposed to paying for the privilege to do it. However I would be amenable to doing this if they they embraced such reports instead of continually trying to blame the problem on my system, Apple, or another product. That said their support has improved a bit as it is now much easier to actually reach someone to discuss the issue with, as opposed to submitting a 'ticket' and hopefully receiving a useful reply.   
(Version 1.5b4)

APIKOROS  Thanks, but Service Scrubber no longer does:

[quote]Service Scrubber no longer edits services that belong to signed applications in Mac OS X 10.5.[/quote]  
(Version 1.5b3)

ALANR  "Now if only we could delete unwanted services provided by Apple's apps!"

You can:

http://www.macupdate.com/search.php?arch=all&keywords=service+scrubber&os=macosx   
(Version 1.5b3)

APIKOROS  Thanks, but Service Scrubber no longer does:

[quote]Service Scrubber no longer edits services that belong to signed applications in Mac OS X 10.5.[/quote]  
(Version 1.5b3)

NICHOLAS RILEY  I've never heard of or seen any other occurrences of kernel panics with ICeCoffEE. If ICeCoffEE being enabled causes kernel panics, it's a problem with Mac OS X or an installed kernel extension (such as a driver). Neither APE nor ICeCoffEE touches the Mac OS X kernel or any applications which run as root.

However, I'd be interested to figure out what's going on; please send me (icecoffee@sabi.net) a copy of the panic logs—and in future, email me rather than/in addition to posting on MacUpdate to get a faster response.  
(Version 1.5b1)

SCHMELDING  It might be helpful to explain what you mean by "managed" and why it's a "no-no".  
(Version 1.4.4)

DONMONTALVO  Managed computers = enterprise, edu, etc.

PS, I certaily hope the developer understands what "managed" means. ;)

Don Montalvo, NYC  
(Version 1.4.4)

NICHOLAS RILEY  APE requires administrator access to install. If your managed environment is properly managed, then users won't be administrators, and the administrators can regulate whether APE is permitted. (In addition to being the author of ICeCoffEE, I manage a lab of Macs.)

APEs are inherently no more or less able to crash applications than any other type of native code plugin - contextual menu items, scripting additions, QuickTime components and Web browser plugins among them.

There's been exactly one known crashing bug due to ICeCoffEE in its entire existence. The bug was very obscure (clicking on a disabled window close button in Terminal), and it was fixed years ago. Compare this, for example, to how often Adobe's Flash plugin crashes your favorite browser, and you'll see that APEs are not a risk even in managed environments, if the environments are properly managed. The quality of the code you're running is far more critical.

ICeCoffEE also supports and includes Smart Crash Reports, so every time an app crashes which could even be remotely related to ICeCoffEE, I get the report.  
(Version 1.4.4)

DONMONTALVO  Modifying an application is cause for concern among sensible systems administrators. Maybe not edu sysadmins, but certainly those managing Macs in business environments.

I wonder what our proxy server administrator would think of your haxie/APE hacks trying to send information outside our network.

I also wonder why your site doesn't include official statements from Adobe, Microsoft, Quark, etc., stating they will continue to support their applications despite the presence of haxies/APE?

Haxies/APE is fine for home users, but it's a stretch to make such a bold claim that it doesn't cause issues by modifying applications.

Don  
(Version 1.4.4)

DELIGHT1  I fell as though you have a single mind dislike for haxies...

You do raise a valid point, in that the use of haxies is less stable than a system with NO add-ons, but the Developer also makes a good point with the mention that ALL add-ons could decrease the stability of a system.

Also, to my knowledge, SmartCrashReports needs to be allowed to send the bug report by default, not an automatic response...  
(Version 1.4.4)

STROB  The right-click crashing appears to have been a problem/conflict with another CM plugin. After deleting that my right click is now working again.

I got back the use of my other modules.

after reinstalling, then uninstalling via the installer. Apparently deleting the .ape folder manually can lead to problems.

I have reinstalled iCeCoffee which appears to be functioning properly now.   
(Version 1.4.2)

ANONYMOUS  i don't believe i've used any carbon apps that put services in the contextual menu  
(Version 1.4.2)

ANONYMOUS  The conversion utility you're asking for is like asking for a program where you can drag & drop your OSX system folder and have it converted to Windows. In other words, they're all completely different things and such a conversion is not possible.  
(Version 1.4.1)