STEVEGEE  Well I lost some data as well with StoryMill - and I'm usually pretty careful. Still don't know where it went.

I decided to delete StoryMill, and what surprised me when I used App Delete to delete it was how many crash reports were associated with this software. I think there were 15. You tend to loose track of how many times something crashes.

By the way - have a look on the bugs forum over at Mariner and see the problems that people report in.

StoryMill appears to have more bugs than my dog - but I stopped wasting my time with it. Bye bye Mariner.  
(Version 3.2.3)

ANONYMOUS  Be careful! I almost lost a whole bunch of work because it wasn't saving!

I really enjoy Storymill and have been using it for 20 days now and boy was the writing sure flowing. I would save often, or at least I thought I was until I checked the modified dates and they were a week old! Storymill never complained. I was able to copy my text out to another program but I lost all the Storymill stuff like annotations.

Things to note to possibly avoid this happening to you....

- It was working fine saving to local drive on laptop

- I decided to save work to desktop over network instead so it would be backed up. This worked fine at least a few times.

- It was running continuously for about 7 days

- Even after I noticed it not saving to the network drive it wouldn't "save as" to the local drive either!

Needless to say I can't afford a disaster that could result from this so I won't be using this program.  
(Version 3.2.2)

BARAK BRUERD  As a writer moving away from using multiple tools to create a composition (usually a combination of omnioutliner, MS Word, and a folder full of clippings) I started researching writing tools with some enthusiasm. Scrivener and StoryMill were the most obvious choices and both seemed to have a solid set of features. Most challenging however were the range of very mixed reviews. Scrivener by far had the most positive, while StoryMill ranged from exceedingly high marks, to very frustrated and disillusioned users.

Rather than repeating a great many other feature comparison reviews I'll summarized with the key features unique to each:

StoryMill: Timeline, characters, locations, and specific breakdown of chapters and scenes.

Scrivener: Cork board, outline, scratch pad

There are other unique features however these have been the most significant in my use of the two applications. By and large, StoryMill has a longer learning curve and is more complicated, but once learned the applications allows writers to create very complex narratives. If you write fiction and non-fiction StoryMill is probably the best fit.

Scrivener on the other hand has a sleek, easy-to-use interface that allows for easy gathering and re-arranging of information. While it can be used in a similar fashion to StoryMill for narratives, it is a more flexible program for research and writing of more technical or informational pieces (anything non-narrative in nature). For those with more flexible needs or who want to be up and running faster, scrivener is probably the best option.

Price points on both are fairly aggressive for both programs and a mere $5 between the two should not drive a purchase decision since you will be spending many hours in front of the computer and should be choosing the best program for your work, not the cheapest. Both are outstanding apps.  
(Version 3.2)

BABYFETT  I too tested both Scrivener and Story Mill and while both had features I wished the other had, I ended up with Scrivener because there were certain limitations to Story Mill that were just too detrimental to the process. I couldn't change font size in the main window (I don't always want to write in full screen mode.) Anyway, Scrivener won my money.   
(Version 3.1)

MSWWSM  I can't give this product any kind of fair review as I can't quite figure out what it's for. If I had to guess, I'd say this -- and the similar Scrivener -- are for writers who may indeed have the prose chops to get the job done but can't get a handle on how to organize longer manuscripts in their heads, and they also like to keep absolutely everything on their Macs.

The Timeline feature I thought would be the most useful -- dates are something I do sometimes flub -- as I expected I'd punch in a scene, give it a date, it would show up on the timeline. Apparently, however, you have to associate scenes with events, and the timeline is then TOO detailed: I don't need to see hours, let alone minutes, but rather just an overview so that I can at a glance see where I probably haven't misdated a significant event having cascading effect on future events, or to which preceding events ultimately arrive. Sometimes, not infrequently, I need to see a span of DECADES all on one line, all at one time, and this seems impossible with the software.

Foremost, StoryMill and Scrivener are not models for how novelists I know actually work. We have various loose "processes", we keep notes, we do research -- not too little research on-the-fly, so to speak -- and we may rough out in a notebook, on an index card, or on the back of the power bill, overarching plot lines, concepts, perhaps brief character sketches, snippets of especially pithy dialogue or metaphor we just have to use, that sort of thing. But everyone I know merely takes something that's been stewing, sits down one morning, or evening, or dead in the middle of night, and begins writing; then we go back and eradicate, illuminate and, well, prevaricate, as required to make the story whole.

I can see how software of this type might be beneficial to those writers -- serial television comes immediately to mind -- who are regular employees, who absolutely Must produce a story, and MUST produce it on a deadline, often using many of the same characters, plot histories, locales and preceding events in developing their plots.

As for aspiring novelists, screenwriters, playwrights, etc., I can't help but advise you'd be far better off just sitting down and writing, ignoring the confusing disorganized mess you may create -- because you CAN -- and WILL, if you stick at it -- develop a process for sorting things out, making sense of disparate parts and gluing them together into a coherent story. The bottom line is, called upon to take 60,000 - 120,000 words or more, vet this draft for grammar, style, continuity errors, etc., it's never going to just wrap up nicely, and it's always going to degrade into a brutal grind at times, whether you write on legal pads with a blunt pencil or with these sorts of computerized writers toolkits. It's never easy, no matter what.  
(Version 3.0.2)

TRENINO  Montage - A review and comparison to Storymill

I have been using the demo of Storymill for about a week writing my new project. Because it is a script I am working on there are things I am missing in it, although there are many nice features. I also downloaded the last version of Montage (1.4) to see if any developments have been made to it, since the last version I used, I did not like.

Although Storymill is for novels and Montage for scripts, they both target creative writers. As one of them I am making this comparison.

Surprisingly although Montage has been longer in the line-up of Mariner Software it is much less refined than Storymill. Here is a comparison:

1) The Progress meter feature lacks from Montage. Screenwriters need to keep track of their productivity as well.

2)User interface under Montage: The content in Research window and Task window cannot be moved around. It is automatically sorted. Besides that, when sorting by name, a very annoying thing happens. number 10 does not follow number 9, in order, but goes after number 1... Storymill on the other hand lets you move things around.

3)The double-clicking of content in Storymill makes it pop up on a separate window. It would really be useful for Montage too, which does not have that feature either.

4) Smart view is a great feature in both programs.

5)This is personal, but aesthetically the icons in Montage are not so nice as the ones in Storymill. Actually they look like OS9 icons..

6)Timeline which is only in Storymill, would be tremendously helpful for screenwriter using Montage as well.

7) Tagging in Storymill is like the “Add keyword” option in Montage, only in storymill it works better.

8) The beginners’ Tutorial in Storymill is a very nice extra that comes with the program. Again Montage lacks is it.

9) Full screen only works on script and scenes mode in Montage. Not in synopsis mode or any other. In storymill all windows can be viewed in full screen. And it is really nice to work on synopses or character profiles in full screen. This is a real shame.

10) Button for making annotations in storymill. In montage you have to go through the menu each time you want to make a note.

11)No option for deselecting the auto Backup. If you deselect it you cannot save your work at all.

12) Annotations can ONLY be made in script mode, not in synopsis, character, scene or other mode in Montage. Again in Storymill things are much better. ANnotations can be made on every mode.

The list goes on...

13) Exporting is so unintuitive in Montage. In Storymill you have a preview of exactly what is going to be exported and you can change it accordingly. In Montage you export first and then you check if you exported the right thing.

I am still finding more handicaps in montage the more I use it. It is really sad as it could have been developed to a very nice application.

As I said earlier Storymill is definitely much more refined than Montage. If you are a novelist you are lucky and good to go with Storymill. If on the other hand you are a script writer like me, then you you have to look elsewhere and definitely not spend the money for purchasing this version.

I would purchase anytime Storymill if it only had standard script formating and outline. On the other hand Montage compared to the Storymill features are very thin.

For the moment and my current project (which is a Feature Film) I will be using Storymill for Synopses, Characters, Research, Scene Ideas, and ONLY then I will go to Montage to write the script, but I might still prefer Final Draft until a better version of either Storymill or Montage comes out or even better if they would merge it in one application as it seems that Storymill and Montage are in fact one application cut in half and therefore crippled. You can download the Demos and see for yourselves.   
(Version 3.0.2)

SCHUBERT  To make a potentially long-winded review short... If you want the best software tool in this category, buy StoryMill now, and don't look back! Nothing compares to the value of StoryMill. It is that good.

I have beta-tested software for over 20 years, and can honestly say that StoryMill is as smooth, quick, and complete, as I have worked with over the years. Most importantly, it is very stable. The developer has gone through great lengths to create an incredible and powerful piece of software.

I highly recommend all products from the developer (Mariner Software) to all of my friends and clients. Mariner understands the needs of the consumer and have an excellent customer service reputation.  
(Version 3.0.2)

CARRIE MARTHA  so, i downloaded the free trial of both scrivener and story mill on my spanking new AirBook for a head to head comparison. So far, the scrivener tutorial is FAR and away much better -- it was clear, intuitive, and i felt i learned how to navigate the app easily. The storymill tutorial is confusing, lacks a "story line" if you other writers get me, and has me very frustrated and feeling like i'm unable to use all the features of the app. My star rating would be waaaay higher, but what's the point of great features if the user can't figure out how to navigate them? That said, i suspect that if i could actually figure out how to use it, that storymill will be more flexible and therefore more conducive to my creative process -- Can anyone explain to me (better than the tutorial) how *exactly* to use the tags feature?   
(Version 3.0.2)

SEMIOTICMONKEY  One Word. Scrivener.

Cheaper. Powerful. Bueautiful. Well crafted.

Buy it (i've done it) and forget about the rest,  
(Version 3.0.2)

TSMBONES  As someone who has always wanted to write a book but didn't know quite how to begin, StoryMill has turned out to be one of my favorite applications. What has been the most impressive is the easily understandable method of organizing. Adding characters and locations is a simple task. The annotation feature is especially welcome-I don't have to worry about a bunch of sticky-notes or loose pieces of paper to collect my thoughts-all my information/notes can be nicely collected and be in one place. The area called the 'metadata' panel, gives me a 'snapshot' of what is in my chapters-for someone who is writing for the first time and in my spare time-it's a great way to review. This is a product that I would not hesitate to recommend.  
(Version 3.0.1)

ZX81  It looks as if Avenir has been sold to Mariner Software.

The timeline view which has been added is an interesting feature.  
(Version 3.0)