WCITYMIKE  Darn it, hit the wrong smiley for this, so ended up +1-ing this guy. And I can't undo it -- don't understand why something would be programmed that way on MacUpdate.

To counterbalance it, I'll say I've never met a more responsive, intelligent, user-oriented developer than Brent Simmons, and he's been developing this Mac RSS application since the days when RSS was syndicated via woodpeckers chiseling into granite.

To call Brent "greedy" is, well, like calling Ann Coulter a Democrat. It just doesn't parse, as we're talking polar opposites here.

And, no, I'm not Brent in disguise. :-)  
(Version 3.2.3)

JAZZYGUY  Well HE IS! Any developer that forsakes his clients and makes the app FREE and then turns around and charges them for a fee is LURING users into his app FALSELY. If you can't understand that you are hopeless. I don't mind paying a fee for an app but I'll be darned if the darn thing goes FREE and then charges all over again.Now for EXAMPLE NewsMac not only didn't charge me a fee for switching over from their previous App NewsMacPro but WILL NOT charge a fee for any upcoming developmental versions.THERE is the difference between a fair developer who treats his clients as part of the familt and Brett who treats us like strangers. I can't make myself clearer than that. AND.... I don't give a rat's behind whether you or SLK give me -stars or not!   
(Version 3.2.3)

WCITYMIKE  First, nix the uppercase, exclamation marks, and ad hominems, and try lowercase, periods, and a deep cleansing breath.

Second, as far as I can tell, NetNewsWire will continue to be free, but with advertisements; they look to have introduced a pay option that makes your experience ad-free. The ads at least at the moment look to be a pretty unobtrusive box in the lower lefthand corner. Is that small gray box what you're flipping out over?

Third, speaking just from thinking it out, I can kinda see why they did the shift. They pretty much had the profit center of the whole free-NNW free-FeedDemon situation centered around paying for NewsGator syncing. Google Reader, plus Google Reader's accessibility on various PDAs, pretty much killed any chance a profit could be made there. So they're reverting to a pay-for-the-app model. I really imagine it was either that or else go out of business.

Fourth, from whence the entitlement? No one is *obligated* to give you anything. This guy has put a few trillion hours of work into this application. Whatever you do for a living, is someone else in the world entitled to require you to donate a few trillion hours of YOUR time doing it?

Fifth, from whence the anger? In the grand scheme of things, you're choosing to froth over THIS kind of stuff? I envy you: you must be in a very good place in your life if the thing that you decide to completely and utterly flip out over is THIS.  
(Version 3.2.3)

JAZZYGUY  Point1-The box is extremely obtrusive.It is in the way.I can't understand why you say it is not obtrusive.Point2-I am in a dither over this because of the spurious and fallacious manner in which Brett positioned the strategy of this app. Even NewsFire when it went free or Shrook did not charge later for the removal of annoying Ads. In fact they had no ads.Point3- These developers also put in considerable time in developing their apps and I dare say as much time as Brett.If they were able to continue their apps on a free basis why not Brett?Point4-My personal comfort in life has no bearing on my right to criticize.As a matter of fact it is none of your affair.  
(Version 3.2.3)

WCITYMIKE  Regarding your first point, whether something's intrusive or not is a question of your and my tolerances differing, and not a question of fact we can resolve. Like iTunes' Artwork box, it shrinks or grows based on the width of the column, so that's a way to shrink it. Compared to some other deeply annoying methodologies I've seen Mac application writers use, that's pretty much an easy walk in the park.

Regarding your second point, both spurious and fallacious mean the same thing: something meant to deceive. So I'll follow up on that. In all of your invective, you haven't made clear what you feel Brent deceived you about. What do you claim Brent deceived you about? What promise with you did he break, and was this a promise explicitly made, or one you inferred? If the latter, what did you infer it from?

And the reason NewsFire and Shrook have not implemented ads, or some other difference, is because they're both still free. You're asking for a product to have virtually no difference between its free and for-pay versions. That's effectively demanding that a for-pay version not exist, which leads us into the question brought up in the third point.

Regarding your third point, your response doesn't answer my question at all. Just because David and Graham are also willing to invest substantial time in creating free programs to give away to the Mac community does not mean that you are entitled to demand from *any* programmer that they continue to donate their time free of charge and for no profit for your benefit. So, my question again: from what ground do you base your entitlement?

Regarding your fourth point, fair enough.  
(Version 3.2.3)

JAZZYGUY  My 'entitlement" is simply based on the fact that I paid for the app at its very inception and we who supported this app were never given any benefit and/or discount for the adfree version. It is so simple. Can't you reasonably understand this? The "Johnny Come Latelys" who came aboard when the app went "free" think that the small amount to pay for the removal of the ads is a wonderful deal! Yes it is for them! But what about us? We supported this app from the inception and even joined his group and made suggestions for its improvement. We have been left in the dust so to speak. I again reiterate the fact that I feel the strategy was spurious to go ahead and call it "free" and then place ads in it. He could have very well conjured up a "Lite" version as he did in days of yore and positioned the ads there. Instead he gave the illusion that the whole thing would be "free". Do you get it now?  
(Version 3.2.3)

WCITYMIKE  First question: did you write Brent to discuss the issue and your feelings of obligation? If so, what did he say? Or was your first method of addressing this concern of yours coming here and posting as you have? If the latter, what did you expect to come about as a result of that?

Second question: your purchase of NetNewsWire entitled you to the product as it was then. It doesn't mean that Justice now requires him to donate to you all future hours invested in improving the product. George Lucas wasn't required by Justice to let all original ticketholders of the Star Wars trilogy see the Special Edition for free (when it was briefly in theaters). Just as we're not automatically entitled to a freeware product staying freeware, we're also not automatically entitled to all future upgrades free of charge until the end of time.

And I don't think "Lite" would've been an appropriate designation, as there's no difference in features between NetNewsWire Pay and NetNewsWire Free. Just the advertisements.  
(Version 3.2.3)

JAZZYGUY  There is no comparison to a movie showing and an App.Other developers have discounted fees for their loyal customers why didn't Brett if he is such a nice guy? Why should I address this to Brett. He can read. I'm sure he is aware of our discussion.He chooses not to come out here because he knows I am right. Even Dave of all people kept his NewsFire app free after declaring it so. You and I know how much Dave has been criticized in the past by me and others.Brett knows we are here and what is going on with our arguments and discussions as he is a very aware developer.As far as the Lite version, there was a Lite Version in the past.If you don't recall it believe me it was there.  
(Version 3.2.3)

WCITYMIKE  With your latest response, you basically *didn't* respond to my real arguments. You instead set up straw-men and responded to them, or brought up new arguments as deflection, which is what you've been doing for this whole thread thus far.

The first "straw-man" you set up was that somehow I claimed there wasn't a NetNewsWire Lite, so your response centered around the idea that "yes there was, whether you believe me or not." Of course there was a NetNewsWire Lite. I am saying that there were feature differences between NetNewsWire Lite and NetNewsWire, and that's why NetNewsWire Lite existed. If Brent was to release the ad-supported version of NetNewsWire as NetNewsWire Lite, and the for-pay version of NetNewsWire as NetNewsWire, there would be no difference between the two. The sole difference in that case between the hypothetical new 2009 NetNewsWire Lite and NetNewsWire would be the presence of advertisements. That really doesn't fit the "Lite" designation, because there would be no difference in features between either program, as there was in the past.

The second "straw-man" you set up was that somehow I think there's no difference between a movie and an application. It was a pretty bad attempt to end-run the actual point made there, but it served its purpose: it let you handily ignore the metaphor or the point behind it. Again, just because you purchase an old generation of something does not mean that you are entitled to receive free all future improvements to that product until the end of time. Sony didn't mail out new versions of the Walkman to those who first bought the new hardware. Microsoft hasn't made Windows 7 free to Vista, XP, or ME purchasers. And either of those giants could certainly better afford such acts of generosity, as no matter what exaggerated state you've dreamed up as Brent's financial status, I doubt even you think he's as well off as Microsoft or Sony. You're not entitled to constantly receive the newest version of whatever you bought long ago. You don't expect that of your car, your washing machine, your hardware, or your operating system. Yet you expect it here.

Fourth, you handily ignored my most piercing question: have, at any time, you written Brent to discuss the issue and the feelings that you've expressed here? If so, what did he say? Or was your first method of addressing this concern of yours coming here and posting as you have? If the latter, what did you expect to come about as a result of that?

Fifth, you've brought up again that Dave Watanbe was generous enough to give away his hours of work by making NewsFire free. In doing so, you highlight that you've ignored another question of mine. Yes, David and Graham are also willing to invest substantial time in creating free programs to give away to the Mac community, but that does not mean that you are entitled to demand from *any* programmer that they continue to donate their time free of charge and for no profit for your benefit. So, my question again: from what ground do you base your entitlement?

Sixth, you've also ignored this: you've slurred Brent with such adjectives as "spurious" and "fallacious", both meaning deceitful. Yet in all of your invective, you haven't made clear what you feel Brent deceived you about. What do you claim Brent deceived you about? What promise with you did he break, and was this a promise explicitly made, or one you inferred? If the latter, what did you infer it from?

His name is B-r-e-*N*-t, by the way.  
(Version 3.2.3)

JAZZYGUY  Sorry about Brett instead of Brent. But what I said still carries the same force and effect! Here is the issue and I will boil it down once again.If something is free then it is free with NO encumberances like ads! N'est pas? FREE means free. It doesn't mean including Ads that can be removed by giving me $10. Do you get that? I can't make my self clearer.It means that since it is Free you will enjoy the same benefits as anyone else. It means that I will not set up a class of users that can enjoy a benefit that the Free users can't enjoy. It means the whole thing is Free. There is the deception. Brent set up a free app and advertised it as such inviting the members of the general Mac User Public to enjoy the Free App and LATER added the Ads.Deceptive and spurious behavior? I think so and any reasonable person would think the same.Now if he had said,This app is Free but I intend to place Ads in it and if you want to rid yourself of them then pay $10 I would say that would be acting with candor! As far as abandoning his past users who supported his app from the inception and then forgetting them completely this is not the action of a "nice guy" but I guess as Leo Durocher said:"Nice Guys Finish Last" It is NOT the attitude or posture I would take if I were Brent but sadly I am not him.  
(Version 3.2.3)

WCITYMIKE  So, your latest argument rests upon two premises.

First, that the definition of "free" includes the prerequisite that it not be supported by advertising, and that to bill something as free and yet have it supported by advertising is a deceptive act.

Well, this prerequisite isn't one commonly required by others. I can't tell you how many times in my life I've heard broadcast television referred to as free, yet that is advertising-supported. Hulu.com's own META description calls itself free, and the Google results for "'free of charge' Hulu" number 461,000, yet that too is advertising-supported. Many websites as their bandwidth bills increase with their popularity begin introducing banner ads or Google AdWords. In all of these cases, people use the standard dictionary definitions of free. Are they "not costing or charging anything" (Merriam-Webster)? Is accessing this allowed "without cost, payment, or charge" (Random House)? Most people label Hulu, broadcast television, NetNewsWire, and ad-supported websites as free, because money is not taken out of their pocket in order to utilize each for its intended purpose.

Second, you also say that to bill something as "free", yet have a extended set of features available by the expenditure of money, is a deceptive act. Well, again, that's not a definition that others use, either. Gillette has for ages mailed out a free razor to 18-year-olds on their birthday. Why? Because continued usage of the product nets them money in the form of razor blade cartridges. That doesn't stop those initial razors from being free. There are a few trillion places in life where companies give away something and say, "Ah, but if you would like to use (insert attractive feature), you'll have to pay." Hell, hotel PPV! Sheraton wouldn't charge you separately for the cable TV, but they offer an extended set of features -- movie channels -- available by the expenditure of money. Different ranks of credit cards -- the lowest rank may not have an annual fee and thus be "free" in that sense, but the expenditure of money opens up an extended set of features (gold, platinum, black cards). That doesn't stop that lowest rank from being of no charge. Not to mention a few thousand other applications on MacUpdate.

By the way, you YET again haven't responded to:

(a) You're not entitled to constantly receive the newest version of whatever you bought long ago. You don't expect that of your car, your washing machine, your hardware, or your operating system. Yet you expect it here. Why?

(b) Have, at any time, you written Brent to discuss the issue and the feelings that you've expressed here? If so, what did he say? Or was your first method of addressing this concern of yours coming here and posting as you have? If the latter, what did you expect to come about as a result of that?

(c) From what ground do you base your belief that you are entitled to demand from *any* programmer that they continue to donate their time free of charge and for no profit for your benefit?

And, to that, I'll add a new point, (d):

I have no special knowledge of NewsGator's internal workings or Brent's business plans. But it's pretty obvious what happened and why they literally couldn't *AFFORD* having NetNewsWire be free anymore, just from outright *thinking* about it.

NewsGator offered an online web access to your feeds. The way they made money -- which they needed not only to make a profit but to not lose money for the immense bandwidth consumed by NNW's and FeedDemon's popularity -- was to sell the ability to sync. If you paid for a higher level of NewsGator, you could sync to your Palm and to other products.

Along Google comes. Google Reader enters the scene, free of charge. Then Google Reader becomes available on mobile devices, too -- Palm, Blackberry, iPhone, whatever your flavor, it's free. Suddenly, Google is giving away what NewsGator had been making money off of. Now, you're Joe Consumer. You come along. You can either pay whatever NewsGator was charging, or get it free. Well, it's pretty obvious -- you're not going to grab $30 or whatever it was out of your pocket and give it away when you don't have to. And I'm sure the Great Recession considerably worsened things.

So, now, NewsGator's old way of making money is pretty much as dried up as a desert rockbed.

How do they make money? And let's for a moment put aside the question of profit. Think about it. Think about exactly how much hosting companies charge for bandwidth. It's not small, believe you me -- look it up for yourself. Because without that money, away goes the bandwidth to distribute NetNewsWire. Away goes the money for Brent to literally go to the grocery store and put food in his family's mouths, for him to pay his rent or mortgage or whatever.

In order for NetNewsWire to have continued existing, money needed to start coming in from somewhere. It's just a fact of life: if you've got money flowing out, you have to have money flowing in in order to stay balanced. Otherwise, the expenses you could expect to be associated with a popular application's distribution would've pretty much very shortly prevented NetNewsWire from continuing to even be available, much less have its development continued.

If I'm a developer facing this situation, well, they took a LESS extreme version than they could've. A lot of software developers, hitting similar venues, yank ALL free access from their applications. 1,910 Google hits for "formerly freeware." I myself was flat-out wrong to complain about Peter Mauer doing exactly that with his very popular Mac software last October. Instead, there still is a free way of using NetNewsWire.

So, here's the question of point (d): you are a company -- or even a solo author -- who needs the presence of incoming money to stay afloat. In the situation described above, if they had done what you have been furiously demanding all over the place here and kept NetNewsWire with no advertisements whatsoever, then the bandwidth bills would've shortly made it financially impossible for NetNewsWire to be downloaded -- and development would've stopped.

That's the outcome of the scenario you've been angrily demanding have taken place. If the complete disappearance of NetNewsWire is something you DON'T want to have happened, then by what methodology would YOU have suggested they keep paying their bandwidth bills and putting food on their tables?  
(Version 3.2.3)

JAZZYGUY  Answer to a-All he had to do was give a discount to his past subscribers. Which he didn't.Answer to b-I don't want to write to Brett period. Where is it written that I have to write to him to get him to recognize his past supporters of his app? In addition I am sure he is reading all of this with amusement and delight as any publicity is better than no publicity as someone once said.I dunno who!c-Once again you are making the wrong comparisons. A razor? A movie? Come on -This is an App that is supposed to be Free. It is to an extent.But there now is a class of users that are enjoying benefits becausev they paid $10.I just don't get the logic here.Personally I was ready and able to pay $19 to newsLife before I would give Brett $10.Fortunately because I subscribed to MacNewsPro I was given a free one. Now as to bandwith costs etc.I am quite sure that the Developer of NewsLife has the same problems as Brett and has to feed his family as well. How is it that he is able to give recognition to the supporters of his former app and "nice guy " Brett isn't able to? Answer that if you will!  
(Version 3.2.3)

WCITYMIKE  First, thank you for your concession that it's okay to charge for newer versions of software, as you are now saying that "ALL he had to do" (emphasis added) was "to give a discount." That's a change from your earlier positions that it be free. To respond, I'll make a small change and yet pose the same question: you're not entitled to constantly receive a discount on newer models of your car, your washing machine, your hardware, or your operating system. Yet you expect it here. Why?

Second, I'll assume by your answer that the answer to my question "did you write to Brent and speak to him about your problems?" is "no." Please correct me if the answer to that question is actually "yes." I asked that for two purposes. The first was to, for my own purposes, get a general assessment of how you approach interpersonal problems. If I have a problem with someone, I approach them and try to work out our disagreement peaceably, and progress from there. By your actions, it's shown that your methodology of solving this problem was to post multiple negative comments. The second was because I've interacted with Brent (again, B-r-e-*N*-t, not Brett) before, as I was on his beta mailing list (as I assume you were from you saying "we ... even joined his group and made suggestions for its improvement"). In my interactions with him on that list we were evidently both members of, I've always found him to be willing to explain his viewpoint and reasoning to someone who disagreed with him, and to be open-minded about changing his position. So, if you had bothered to write to Brent with your problem before posting numerous angry messages (most recently advocating, as SJK points out downthread, an app that is now abandonware), I think it's a fair assumption based on all the past communications of his that I've seen that he would've treated your query with respect, at least engaging with you as one reasonable being to another. Sorry to see that's not the path you chose to take.

Third, with regards to "a razor? a movie? come on, this is an app!", well, if you're going to start pretending as if you don't know what an analogy is, you're going to just come off looking silly. Plus, as I pointed out, the "give a feature-limited version of the app away" tactic is one embraced by hundreds of Mac authors here on MacUpdate.

Fourth, "this is an application that is supposed to be free." From where do you draw that supposedness?

Fifth, thank you for your concession that the application currently is free, and that it's just a question of you not liking the degree of "extent" to which it is free.

Sixth, with regards to the argument you wrap up with "answer that if you will!", the fallacy you're again trying to argue is holding out degrees of generosity as requirements. ThinkMac Software is willing to pay for the bandwidth to distribute NewsLife themselves because they choose to give that, as a gift, to those who download it. They're not obligated to do so, nor are others obligated to meet their obligations. And that's probably because they have three Mac and two iPhone applications on their websites, so they're operating on a different business model than NewsGator is. In their case, NewsLife can act as an introduction to their other applications. When NewsGator was making its business on sync, that's exactly how they operated: the free web product and year's worth of free app-website syncing served as the introduction to their other syncing products.  
(Version 3.2.3)

JAZZYGUY  You are drawing an analogy between a razor which is an article that is physical or a movie which is really a disposable product because once you view it in a theatre (not a DVD or VHS or D/l via iTunes or Netflix etc) it is a disposable product. Especially viewing a film in a theatre.Once you view it it is gone! You are done!Bad analogy.I feel and ALWAYS felt Brent should have given a discount (maybe 50% $5) for his long time subscribers.I never wrote to him as I felt it was somewhat self evident that this should have been done. If he didn't consider those who subscribed to this app at its very inception,well why bother to remind him? We will migrate to another RSS reader where consideration and appreciation of loyal subscribers is omnipresent.You are trying to defend the indefensible and although your arguments sound rational and logical when they are thought out they are blindsided by your steadfastness.There is an inscription on the old court house in Jersey City,New Jersey (Hudson County) that says :"If you stand firm Stand Fast". The trouble with that is standing fast and resolute will in most instances never solve or ameliorate differences.   
(Version 3.2.3)

JAZZYGUY  Correction-The inscription on the CourtHouse in Hudson County reads:"If you stand well stand fast"  
(Version 3.2.3)

WCITYMIKE  You argue drawing an analogy between a computer application and a physical object makes for a bad analogy, but you also argue that drawing an analogy between a computer application and a non-physical entity makes for a bad analogy, too. You can't have both; it's like arguing that x both does and doesn't equal one.

As for either of them being bad analogies, I disagree with you; objects in an allegory don't have to be an exact match, as long as the particular relationship being compared in the analogy is similar or identical between the original relationship and the entities used for the analogy. In both analogies -- a movie and a razor -- there is the relationship between a seller and a buyer, just as there was with Brent and you. That was what the analogy was based upon. Analogies don't have to perfectly match every attribute in order to be valid analogies. That's something Aesop figured out millennia ago, after all: fables wouldn't have worked otherwise. ("But the fox is an animal. We're HUMANS.")

While not conceding for a moment that the prior analogies were off, let's remove the concept of an analogy altogether to remove the wiggle room on your end. We're talking about ephemeral computer bytes on a hard disk. So, let's say Mr. JazzGuy purchases a digital copy of "The Godfather Trilogy" in 2005. In 2008, the movie studio releases the Coppola Restoration of the Godfather Trilogy. Once you view it, it's not gone; it's still on your hard drive. Yet it's not a physical object externally. Just like NetNewsWire, it is composed of bits and bytes. Tell me then: do they owe you a copy of the new trilogy free of charge?

As for your feelings about what Brent should or shouldn't have done, that's not an issue of fact I can debate with you. Obviously, as per the many positions stated above, I don't feel it's a justified feeling. But whether or not you felt something is not a position anyone outside of your head would factually know.

As for the idea that he was somehow supposed to magically intuit without communication the opinions and feelings of one of at LEAST tens of thousands of users (if not many, many more) without said person actually communicating with them, that is leaving the real world and heading into the realm of parapsychology, as you're then grading Brent based on whether or not he utilizied senses that human beings have yet to be proven to have.

As for defending the indefensible, "indefensible" is pretty much an argumentative pejorative, not an actual statement of fact. After all, if something is indefensible, it can't be defended; it makes about as much factual sense as murdering the immortal, drinking a solid, etc. It really doesn't mean much in terms of mounting an argument.

I'm also greatly amused by the idea that rationality and logic is somehow invalidated by -- well, sorry in advance for the insult, but you backed me into a corner on this particular one -- not giving in to a faulty and quite poorly argued position.

As for your quotes, quotes have no special weight in arguments, as you can nearly always find quotes to support whatever point you want to make. After all, practice makes perfect, but nobody's perfect. Good things come to those who wait, but he who hesitates is lost. Birds of a feather flock together, but opposites attract. Clothes make the man, but you shouldn't judge a book by its cover. Absence makes the heart grow fonder, but familiarity breeds contempt. Many hands make light work, but too many cooks spoil the broth.

And, by the way, you haven't yet responded to you have yet to provide financial means by which NewsGator could continue putting food on the table and paying for bandwidth; you have yet to tell us which promise you're claiming Brent deceived you about, and how he communicated that promise to you; you have yet to tell us by what sensory means you expected Brent to know of your feelings, without you actually communicating them to him; you have yet to tell us why you feel you're entitled to demand from *any* programmer that they continue to donate their time free of charge and for no profit for your benefit, and why you feel that this rationale wouldn't obligate you to donating your time free of charge and for no profit to previous customers in your line of work, and why you expect to constantly receive the newest version of NetNewsWire free of charge, but you don't expect to receive the newest version of other ephemerally digital material free of charge -- operating systems, other Mac applications, or new "special editions" of previously downloaded digital media. After all, as argued upthread, Microsoft hasn't made Windows 7 free to Vista, XP, or ME purchasers. And either of those giants could certainly better afford such acts of generosity than Brent Simmons.  
(Version 3.2.3)

JAZZYGUY  OK! I'll now list what you consider the unanswered questions you posed. I'll take them in REVERSED order. First how can Brent put food on the table as you put it. By CHARGING those users that never paid for his app and letting those like ourselves(you included!)a free pass! There are surely many users here who have paid the Grand Sum of $10 to enjoy what we have previously paid the FULL amount for! Why not? These users think that NNW is a great News Reader why shouldn't they Pay in full for it as we did.YES forget the FREE app!There is no Free Lunch as has now been proven by this app. OK! on the first unanswered question which is how was I deceived.I wasn't deceived at all but as I said before afterpaying for the app it went free.I felt that it was nice to do that for the Mac Community but the Ad thing was unexpected. I felt that this strategy to call it free and then charge to remove ads that never appeared in previous versions was scurrilous and a spurious strategy for a FREE app.However,employing my first answer would have obviated the necessity to insert ads at all.I really don't expect or desire anyone to work for nothing or starve their families!   
(Version 3.2.3)

WCITYMIKE  First, that wasn't in reversed order.

Second, you've now gone from advocating that the application be free, to that the application be discounted 50%, to that the application be discounted 100% for old users and raised to whatever the old full price was (I think $35?) for new users. That's quite a variety of opinions.

Neither Brent nor NewsGator are financially suicidal. They're charging what the market can bear. Right now, there's no newsreader application anywhere NEAR what the original price of NetNewsWire was. And, right now, the economy is in the freaking toilet and no one is going to spend $35 on an application. $10 is reasonable and priced to actually sell.

Third, you've now gone from accusing Brent from being "spurious" and "fallacious", both words meaning deceitful, to admitting that you weren't deceived at all.

So, let's look over your backtracks in this thread. You've (a) admitted the ad-supported application is free; (b) admitted that you would have been happy with getting a discount; (c) admitted that you never even tried to talk to Brent about your feelings about this; and (d) admitted that you weren't deceived at all.

So, you've suggested a way in which you think NewsGator could have earned a living, but one that shows no awareness of the current economic climate and pricing sensibilities for newsreaders. You've resigned your position on Brent deceiving you. You have yet to tell us why you feel you're entitled to demand from *any* programmer that they continue to donate their time free of charge and for no profit for your benefit. You have yet to tell us why you feel that this rationale wouldn't obligate you to donating your time free of charge and for no profit to previous customers in your line of work. You have yet to tell us why, since you expect to constantly receive the newest version of NetNewsWire free of charge, you're not equally furious at producers of newer versions of operating systems, other Mac applications, or new "special editions" of previously downloaded digital media, and/or other ephemerally digital material for not providing it free of charge.  
(Version 3.2.3)

JAZZYGUY  You are trying a technique to paint me into a corner and unfortunately for you I won't go there.I disdain the STRATEGY of calling this app FREE and then sticking Ads in .I feel that this strategy was unexpected,scurrilous,deceitful and fallacious.In addition it was spurious to call it Free and display it without Ads and then suddenly insert Ads. That made the theory that it was"FREE" spurious. It was an obvious technique to lure people to the app.You know "If it's FREE it's For ME!!!!"I feel he should have if adhering to this $10 fee he should have offered a discount to the loyal supporters of his app.No one needed to tell him that.He is enough of a businessman to know that.If he couldn't do that he should NOT have made the app "FREE".He could have charged whatever he felt was right in this distressed economy.Please don't try to put words in my mouth.I gave you 2 different strategies that he could have employed. And BTW are you associated with NNW orthe developer in any way? I have no association with NewsLife or ThinkMac.  
(Version 3.2.3)

WCITYMIKE  I'm pointing out the many logical inconsistencies in your statements. You don't have answers, which is why you're either ignoring them or calling it "painting [you] into a corner."

As I said upthread, I'm not associated with NetNewsWire or Brent. Just as you were a member of his beta mailing list, so was I; that's how I know Brent.

Honestly, at this point, I just don't find it worthwhile to talk with you anymore. You can't even defend your nonsensical position adequately: you ignore questions that you find inconvenient, you make up facts, you shift positions and don't admit the shift, and you don't move an iota from the rock-iron certitude that you are right and Brent and Newsgator are devils.

A person simply can't engage in actual discussion with a person like you; it just results as people iterating and reiterating and re-reiterating their positions over and over again, with no progress made, just wheels grinding against each other. And it's a waste of my time, and yours.

I'll also say this: there's next to no possibility that this is what you're truly mad over. Maybe you think it's what you're mad at, but I guarantee it's not. I've been there myself, where online discussions over nonsensical issues (such as a 242x92 patch of screen real estate) have served as funnels for my anger. I'm sure you'll deny it at the moment, and most likely angrily so. But someday, perhaps far in the future (I hope not), you're going to be at peace, and you're going to look back at these as your angry days, when you were a different person. I wish you luck getting to that day.

I'm happy to now give you the last word, because as for me, this is my last post in this particular conversation; I'm done.  
(Version 3.2.3)

JAZZYGUY  I'm sorry you feel the way you do.I am not an angry man but I feel that you should always get what you PAID for! Nothing less.It would have been GOOD BUSINESS For NNW to remember their old customers and honor them in some way.That's just good business and no one needs to communicate that idea to them in an eMail.In addition the thought occurred to me that NNW could have charged for syncing and that way they could have paid for Bandwith.Instead they chose to use the strategy of putting a Free app in that had NO ads and then syncing with Google Reader they inserted Ads! A poor strategy at best.I wish you a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!  
(Version 3.2.3)

JAZZYGUY  That is what is WRONG about this app.FORGET about whether the developer is a GOOD GUY or bad the darn thing takes too long a time to update if you have a large amount of RSS updates whereas other readers update instantly or in a few seconds.GoodGuy don't cut it!  
(Version 3.2.3)

SJK  ThinkMac stopped NewsMac(Pro) development years ago in favor of the NewsLife, which costs $18 and hasn't been updated in over a year. Good luck with that.  
(Version 3.2.2)

JAZZYGUY  BUT IT WORKS!!! ....AND I HAVE LUCK WITH THAT!!! As a matter of fact SJK it runs fast and runs better than NetNewsWire. I guarantee that the new version of this RSS Newsreader will not ask for more money as it goes through different stages of devealopment. NetNewsWire was PAID FOR by myself and others. GET A LIFE! We paid for it and supported it and then it went "free"for a little while and now has ads and asks for more money! Shrook and NewsFire don't do that after they become free apps.I think it is a disgusting avaricious act and OTHERS HERE feel the same!BTW the "old NewsMacPro that you disdain even has skins and does it better than NetNewsWire.....and as for their iPhone app! Forget it if you have a load of RSS that you want to appear on your iPhone. That iphone app is absolutely useless unless you want to wait all day for your RSS news to appear. BTW Good luck to youand the horse you came in on!  
(Version 3.2.2)

SJK  .

Rant away, but I don't appreciate being falsely accused of disdaining NewsMacPro.  
(Version 3.2.2)

DANA SUTTON  Well, my friend, there's something in the world we can call avarice, and it's pretty easy recognize that when you see it. But there's also something called the need to eat. There are plenty of genuine greedheads in the world, why don't you save your bad words for them? Personally, I think the developer of this product is a pretty okay guy, and I bet most folks will agree with me. It's also, i. m. h. o., a damn fine product.   
(Version 3.2.3)

JAZZYGUY  That is what is WRONG about this app.FORGET about whether the developer is a GOOD GUY or bad the darn thing takes too long a time to update if you have a large amount of RSS updates whereas other readers update instantly or in a few seconds.GoodGuy don't cut it!   
(Version 3.2.3)

JAZZYGUY  Dana Sutton: You feel sorry for Newsgator! Aw they have to eat! Well this conglomaration of corporate control makes more money in one day than you make all year! We who supported NNW at the START got locked out when they ignored their LOYAL supporters and went FREE in order to LURE more users to their app.THEN they put the ADS in and asked for additional monies to remove them . You don't call that AVARICE! Well then you don't know how to recognize it as such. An App is either FREE or charges money for it! It can't be both! We who were locked out after all the years of supporting this app were ignored!  
(Version 3.2.3)

JB4  I respect the developer's right to make money from his creation. Either I pay for the add free version, or put up with those relatively unobtrusive adds.

It's always the user's choice and after using all the other RSS applications for Mac and waiting for all my feeds to load and sometimes watching the apps. crash trying to load them all, I wouldn't even think of switching.  
(Version 3.2.2)

ROBOTANK  I admit I was very annoyed when the ads first appeared in NNW, but I do agree with the above response. It's perfectly reasonable for NNW's developers to ask for money for their work. Moreover, they're only asking for $10, a very reasonable fee for a quality application. I absolutely refuse to use any kind of adware, but now that I have the choice in NNW to immediately purge the ads by buying the app, I have no further reason to complain about their presence. If you don't want to pay, then by all means explore other options, but to suggest that there's absolutely no reason to pay for something when a free alternative exists is a little silly. Sometimes the paid alternative is the better one. Up to this point, I've yet to encounter a news reader, free or otherwise, that lives up to NNW's standard.  
(Version 3.2.2)

SUPERDUPERJACOB  When you are on a tab with an article, use ⌘⌘⌘⌘⌘⌘⌘⌘⌘⌘⌘⌘Command+W.  
(Version 3.2)

SJK  Wow, a sensible comment (which surprisingly hasn't been down-smilied, yet) amongst all the kvetching.  
(Version 3.2)

ITISTODAY  I may have come down too harshly on NNW as I did not acknowledge that is does have a lot of great features, albeit most of them can be found in Vienna. One feature *not* found in Vienna though is Google Reader synching, and I especially like how they're working around GR's inability to handle nested folders through the use of dashes.

If the bugs are worked out I'll happily revise my review.  
(Version 3.2)

ZX81  "There will be a way to pay to get rid of the ads. We just haven’t set it up yet."

Let me try to understand ; I paid for NNW, then it became freeware. And now I should pay to get rid of the ads that bring money to NewsGator Technologies.

Great double jackpot!  
(Version 3.2b28)

JAN13  Hypocrite reviews ... LOL ... so give me $$$ Money $$$ back and I ’l be fine ...  
(Version 3.2b28)

SJK  .

>What is going to happen to the people who already PAID for the app once?

There's already plenty of discussion about that on the NewsGator forum.  
(Version 3.2b24)

BLLOYD  A request for a 64 bit version is a little ridiculous. There's no advantage for an RSS reader. At least, I'd hope it doesn't need that much RAM to function!  
(Version 3.2b24)

ZX  @BLLOYD

That's funny. NNW is the no1. ram eating application on my mac (averaging 700.MB Real Ram!). Also, if you were a power user you will know that the cpu/bandwidth usage is through the roof. NNW should be one of the first appliction to go 64bit!.  
(Version 3.2b24)

DAIYI  $10 for ad-free version, even if you purchased a license. NNW is still by far the best RSS reader for my needs (though Vienna is excellent as well).   
(Version 3.2b25)

SJK  .

> $10 for ad-free version

Where has that been announced?  
(Version 3.2b25)

BLLOYD  ZX, just because NNW uses a lot of RAM doesn't mean it would benefit from going 64 bit.

If it were using more than 4 GB of REAL RAM, yes. But while it's a "hog," it's generally using ~150 MB of RAM for me. And much of this is thanks to Webkit (Safari is typically my #1 "hog" application, and it has been fairly frequently optimized for leaks).

I can see actually on 10.6 that NNW hasn't leaked much (2336 bytes is _nothing_):

Ocho:~ blloyd$ leaks NetNewsWire

Process 15553: 426436 nodes malloced for 73250 KB

Process 15553: 67 leaks for 2336 total leaked bytes.

So anyway, I don't know that NNW would benefit from going to 64 bit. That said, I'll bet Brent goes 64 bit with NNW 4.0, whever that shows up. He's blogged about it a few times.  
(Version 3.2b25)

DAIYI  I received an email reply about the non-ad version license costing $10. It is also on the Newsgator site, though not that easy to find.   
(Version 3.2b25)

SJK  Found the pricing at the top of the Consumer FAQs page:

http://www.newsgator.com/productinfo/consumerinfo.aspx

NGO shutdown info is out-of-date, still mentioning "week of September 7th".  
(Version 3.2b25)

SJK  PS: Ad-related dates are off, too.  
(Version 3.2b25)

BLLOYD  Not that I've seen.  
(Version 3.2b19)

MROW  I've not noticed any incompatibilities so far..  
(Version 3.2b19)

SJK  .

>Anyone know where I can download a previous build so that I can get NNW working again on my machine?

Click the More Information link to visit the 3.1 download page on NewsGator's site.

>What is the best alternative after NNW?

Have you checked the OTHER PEOPLE SUGGEST links or looked at comments here? No one know what's "best" for you.  
(Version 3.2b13)

STUGOTS  For alternatives, I looked at Shrook and Vienna. With Shrook, you can sync to their optional $20/year service. Vienna doesn't have syncing yet, but it's on their wishlist. And Vienna is open-source. I switched to Vienna because syncing isn't important to me right now.   
(Version 3.2b13)

IMINI  I like when developers drop old OS support so that they can use new technologies in new OS. 10.4 is more than 4 years old, there is no reason to still use it. Backward compatibility is the reason Windows Vista is so slow and bloated.  
(Version 3.2b14)

BARISTABRIAN  >> "I like when developers drop old OS support so that they can use new technologies in new OS."

What an ignorant statement! What, developers can *not* implement "new technologies" if they *do* support an "old OS?" Since when? And, what's "old" to you is not necessarily *old* by somebody *else's* definition? Everheard of Windows XP [versus Vista]? Apparently not.

>> "10.4 is more than 4 years old ... "

So? What's your point? Too old for you? Then move on and be quiet about it.

>> "there is no reason to still use it."

Says who, you? Some troll ...or just some opinionated and loudmouthed *early adoter.* What, you want a pat on the back? You got money and need for the "latest and greatest?" Good for you. One size does *not* fit all, unfortunately.

>> "Backward compatibility is the reason Windows Vista is so slow and bloated."

We're not talking about an *OS,* now, are we? We're talking about a "developer* and their application . . . and a possible flaw in the "update" delivery system. A person, apparently, was *mistakenly* led to believe that they were getting a *viable* update when, possibly, they were provided a version that is *not* compatible.

Besides, how does this have *anything* to do with *your* pre-suppositions about what *is* or is *not* "old" and "unnecessaary" for everybody else --- besides you?   
(Version 3.2b23)

SJK  Something that's always brought me back (quickly) to NNW is that it's the only news reader I've found that handles hundreds of feeds relatively efficiently; others always bring the app and/or system to its knees.  
(Version 3.2b13)

JB4  "SJK Something that's always brought me back (quickly) to NNW is that it's the only news reader I've found that handles hundreds of feeds relatively efficiently; others always bring the app and/or system to its knees.

(Version 3.2b13)"

Amen!  
(Version 3.2b13)

KAIDOH  Mee too. I lost a bunch of feeds after the update. But I managed to bring them back: Turn of Google syncing in NNW and quit the app. Then travel to ~/Library/Application Support/NetNewsWire/Backups/, remove the date from a pre-update and overwrite Supscription.plist in the folder above with it. This brought my feeds back.  
(Version 3.2b14)

ICONZ113  can someone send me a screenshot of how intrusive these ads are? Im not gonna download it yet, im gonna wait to see what people are saying

iconz113@gmail.com

Thx  
(Version 3.2b6)

STUGOTS  So you give it 5 stars before you've even run it? Brilliant.  
(Version 3.2b6)

ICONZ113  Im just hyped about the google syncing. shouldn't worry about peoples system for rating applications, life's too short, relax yourself, these things dont really matter.  
(Version 3.2b6)

CUIWEICUI  Try EventBox. It syncs GR and supports many features very well.  
(Version 3.2b11)

SJK  Yup, and the first item on the http://nnwbeta.com/todolist32.html page says:

Ads

There will be a way to pay to get rid of the ads. We just haven’t set it up yet.

Some people ought to consider doing more reading before posting.  
(Version 3.2b6)

STUGOTS  Delve deeper, and you'll find that some people paid for NetNewsWire before it went free.

At least one pointed out that he/she never got a refund for their payment. So now, rightly or wrongly, they're a little perturbed that they have to pay again to not see ads.  
(Version 3.2b6)

TESLANAUT  @STUGOTS

They paid for an OLDER version of NetNewsWire. This is a new version. They're not entitled to anything.  
(Version 3.2b6)

STUGOTS  Some of them might say, I paid for this software a year or so ago, and a major feature will stop working in August. And that's unreasonable.  
(Version 3.2b6)

SJK  > Delve deeper, and you'll find that some people paid for NetNewsWire before it went free.

You don't think that's obvious? Delve deeper for what? :)  
(Version 3.2b6)

DANA SUTTON  They used to charge money...now they want us to pay to remove the ads, and by "us" I include those of us who have already pay them more money...if we pay the money, how long will it be before they charge us more more money to remove more ads? Given this track record, there's not much basis for a relation of trust here, is there? If they want to charge us money, they need to be very up-front about exactly this money buys us, how long we get immunity from being treated the same way again. Vienna is looking better all the time.  
(Version 3.2b6)

SJK  > now they want us to pay to remove the ads, and by "us" I include those of us who have already pay them more money

Statements like that are only speculation since NewsGator's actual future pricing policies are still unannounced.  
(Version 3.2b6)

ICONZ113  I wouldn't call newsfire yukie, best looking RSS reader on mac, but yeah google sync takes the cake  
(Version 3.2b6)

TESLANAUT  Ouch, too bad. Guess you should stop using those other ad supported apps/services too then huh?  
(Version 3.2b6)

DARYLF2  I agree. I've used NetNewsWire for years, having purchased a license back in 2005 when it was still shareware.

What alternatived are there? I've tried Fire and Times, but neither seem very good if you have a lot of feeds (I have 50-60 feeds, spread across about a dozen folders).  
(Version 3.2b6)

TESLANAUT  @DARYLF2

What version was it back then?  
(Version 3.2b6)

SJK  DARYLF2, have you tried Vienna? It clearly wasn't a NNW replacement for me when I did, though that was a few years ago so I might feel differently now and what criteria will satisfy someone else often differs from mine.  
(Version 3.2b6)

ODYSSEUS  Couldn't agree more. The ads stink.   
(Version 3.2b6)

HERBERTKORNFELD  I understand that the application is free now and that it’s ad supported. But I also purchased a license a few years ago. And I can’t say that I'm very fond of seeing the ads.

Between the desktop client and the iPhone version, I know that a lot has gone into development over the last couple of years. And I haven’t paid a penny for any of it since I bought my initial license. But I wish that the developer would let me.

Surely they must still have a record of their paying customers. I’d gladly pay an upgrade fee if it meant I could remove the ads.   
(Version 3.2b6)

TESLANAUT  You paying customers, you paid for a PREVIOUS VERSION of NetNewsWire. That was then. The new version(s) is Now. Paying for it 3 or whatever years ago does NOT entitle you to an Ad free version or whatever they put in it. If they make it shareware again, prepare to fork over the money for it. No special discount for you PREVIOUS version owners.

Does Microsoft give you a discount if you bought Windows X+ years ago? No.

Does Apple give you a discount if you buy Microsoft X+ years ago? No.  
(Version 3.2b6)

DARYLF2  TESLANAUT, it was version 2.0.1.

SJK, yes I tried Vienna. While it is very promising, it is also not very stable and lacking many of the navigation features I've come to rely on.

TESLANAUT, I'm perfectly happy to pay a reasonable shareware fee for the new version of NetNewsWire if it gets rid of the ads. But will they even be offering a paid, ad-free version? I haven't seen that they will, but I'm hoping for it. I like NetNewsWire a lot, but I don't like the suddenness of this change and the inconvenience it is imposing on many NetNewsWire users.  
(Version 3.2b6)

HERBERTKORNFELD  TESLANAUT. I understand that you’re trying to stand up for the developer, and that’s commendable. But you’re completely off base in your criticism.

Yes, I understand that I paid for it awhile ago. And if they’d let me, I'd still be paying. I don’t feel entitled to anything, I’m simply requesting more options. There used to be a NetNewsWire lite. You could use that for free, or you could pay a couple of bucks and get the full premium version. I’m just requesting that they go back to a two-tiered model.

And as for your other question, about whether Microsoft or Apple give discounts, you’re completely wrong. Both of these companies, like almost all other software vendors, allow for upgrades. Each time you buy the latest version of some software, you’re almost never expected to pay full price. Here’s some numbers for you.

If you want Snow Leopard next month, you’ve got some options. You can buy a new Mac, you can get the $29 upgrade if you currently have Leopard, or if you’re still on Tiger, you can buy a bundle that has Snow Leopard, iLife, and iWork for $169. (via http://bit.ly/4we3E)

With Microsoft, they’ve also got discounted rates for Windows 7 if you’re upgrading rather than just buying it from scratch. (via http://bit.ly/VuRFK)

Windows 7 Home Premium - (Upgrade): $119.99 / (Full): $199.99

Windows 7 Professional - (Upgrade): $199.99 / (Full): $299.99

Windows 7 Ultimate - (Upgrade): $219.99 / (Full): $319.99  
(Version 3.2b6)

TESLANAUT  @HERBERTKORNFELD

This is Beta software right now. They're testing stuff that might not even go into the Final release. You see all the comments that are going "Eww Ads". Its quite ridiculous that they're all angry at something that might not even go into the final product or they might even make shareware. I just found it disgusting that they'd turn their back on something just because of a tiny change.

hat about going from Panther to Snow Leopard? No help there? What about XP to Windows 7? Upgrading for them means either buy a whole new computer that comes with it or buying a copy of Windows 7. Also, Snow Leopard isn't really a new Operating System now is it? Like what that French guy said in the Keynote. They are taking what Leopard already is/has and making it better. Also, to be able to participate in the "Upgrade from Vista to 7" you have to have, quote:

Purchase a qualifying version* of a Windows Vista retail packaged product from your favorite retailer between June 26, 2009 and January 31, 2010. (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/buy/offers/upgrade.aspx)

So right. If you bought it before that, you are SOL. Which applies here, you bought an older version longer ago, you're not getting a discount now.  
(Version 3.2b6)

SJK  Re: SJK, yes I tried Vienna. While it is very promising, it is also not very stable and lacking many of the navigation features I've come to rely on.

That's basically my impression when I tried it, too.

Even after Aug. 31st I'd be satisfied to keep using NNW 3.1.7 on my Mac since I've only been relying on NewsGator Online to sync with the iPhone app and for Clippings access. So, in the short term I'm more interested in what's coming next for the iPhone app.  
(Version 3.2b6)

ROBOTANK  @Teslanaut

Actually, I refuse to use a web browser without some sort of ad-blocking add-on, so I can use ad-supported services without having to see the ads. I don't think that such a thing would work with NNW, unless GlimmerBlocker could be set up to filter out data from that ad server before it even reached NNW. I realize that much of the Internet relies on ad revenue, but the fact is that we live in a culture saturated by advertising cramming useless consumer crap down our throats. In almost all public spaces we are force-fed corporate advertising, so I won't pass up the opportunity to have my computer and Internet as ad-free spaces. On the other hand, I have absolutely no issue with paying for quality low-cost software, especially when it's written by independent developers. I'm hoping it doesn't take too long for the paid option on NNW to come along.  
(Version 3.2b6)

DARYLF2  I tried Vienna some more and its growing on me. Its pretty customizable, with css-based themes much like NetNewsWire. Once I customized a theme to use my beloved Myriad Pro and Minion Pro typefaces in larger sizes then the "Apple Mail" them I am using, I was VERY happy with Vienna's visual presentation of the RSS articles. I'm still getting used to the slightly different keyboard shortcuts, but its working well so far. And the latest versions of Vienna seem more stable as well.  
(Version 3.2b13)

SJK  Can Vienna handle +500 feeds now without choking?  
(Version 3.2b13)

MACUPDATE ADMIN  Fixed the requirements, thanks for the heads-up!  
(Version 3.2b6)

HMURCHISON  Sir...I'm going to have to ask you to stop making sense. Rational reply is not wanted here. How dare you confront the "It has to be free" thrifty Mac users by admonishing them for desiring free AND ad free software. Companies aren't allowed to make money or payroll today. You're rocking the boat black sheep ;)   
(Version 3.2b6)

CHAOTICPIXEL  Ha, yea, I know. I am a real meanie sometimes.

People need to be introduced to the benefits/cost analysis. You take the benefit of the software, a solid RSS reader, and give it a value from 1 to 10, put that over a value you give the cost of the software, again 1 to 10. You will then end up with a fraction, say 3/2 or 4/5. The bigger the numerator is relative to the denominator, you have a better buy. I would rate NNW version 2.0 an 8/0. The 3.0 version may not be as good yet, so we will lower the benefit to 6. That would make it 6/0. THAT IS STILL A GOOD "BUY"!

When the cost is zero, there is zero liability, zero risk. Why complain? This is business 101. By the way, thanks for the laugh HMURCHISON.  
(Version 3.2b6)

STILL_SPARKLING  I don't think the people who paid for this software with their hard-earned money should be classified as ingrates. If the dev wants to make money off ads, that's his choice, but he should either allow his paid users to have an ad-free version or refund them for the money they've spent. No double-dipping please!  
(Version 3.2b6)

TESLANAUT  When people bought the NetNewsWire App, which version did they pay for? Because I see lots of developers and even big companies (Microsoft & Apple) charging for whole new versions (ie. 1.0 to 2.0 etc). When people bought NetNewsWire back then, they bought THAT version. Now its a whole new version and coming soon, 4.0.

Just because you bought an older version of an App or piece of Software, doesn't entitle you to have an adfree or whatever new version to come.

Anyway, if you don't like the Ads in the software, you're more than welcome to move onto alternatives.  
(Version 3.2b6)

SJK  Likely there will be some method(s) for doing it, which doesn't imply anything about my opinions about doing it.  
(Version 3.2b6)

SEBEHK  Yeah, what's with the stupid small ad window on the bottom left? I couldn't find a setting to get rid of it. I may have to go back to NewsFire if NNW does not get rid of that ad.  
(Version 3.2b6)

HMURCHISON  Didn't you comment a month ago about no updates yet lo and behold we have an update here?

I don't like advertising either but how many times are you going to move the goalposts here to justify doling out another one star review?   
(Version 3.2b6)

MISHA  I'm not really sure about this beta... you lose features, gain ads, and a better icon? I might just copy/paste the icon on b5 and be done with it :)  
(Version 3.2b6)

ZX  Update...do you see any fundemantal changes??? he took down 3 syncing services and replace them with one + adds. Also, i actually paid for NNW.  
(Version 3.2b6)

BLLOYD  Sure, you paid for NNW 4 or 5 years ago. Prior to the acquisition by NewsGator. Whether that should make the upgrade to the "no ads" version cheaper than those that have never paid, I can't say. I'm sure it was long ago.

The fact that the former version (3.1.7) was totally free, and synched with NewsGator, for free, with no ads, seemed odd to me. I mean, what was the business strategy? I think the ads are an acceptable evil for now, and I'll see what the upgrade options are to paid once it's available (4.0?).

Given the NewsGator and MobileMe synching is going away as of the end of August, staying with the older version is an option... if you don't want to sync.  
(Version 3.2b6)

SJK  To whatever degree, the demise of NewsGator synching will matter to every NNW iPhone app user even without synching with NNW Desktop. Before Aug. 31st I'll make sure to have a local copy of all clippings saved from my iPod touch.

Good luck to NewsGator, thinking they can pull off this major transition of apps *and* services in a month.  
(Version 3.2b6)

TIAGO  What's with all these "4-5 years ago" comments?

NNW has been free for less than a year.  
(Version 3.2b6)

MACUPDATE ADMIN  Try here: http://forum.newsgator.com//  
(Version 3.1.7)

JAZZADDICT  Good write up. I was using Safari and then Mail for RSS until NNW for iPhone was released. I always had NNW but I didn't like launching such a battle tank of an app every time I wanted to browse some feeds. Now I keep it as a log in item. In combination with the iPhone App NNW changed how I read the news. Thanks.  
(Version 3.1.7)

JOBBY  Sorry, no idea — but it's happening to me as well. maczot.com, mupromo.com and dailykitten.com seem to be the main ones affected. I wish I could remember what the last version was that didn't do this, so I could roll back...  
(Version 3.1.6)

JOBBY  A followup to my own post: I can see the new items in the affected feeds by turning off NewsGator syncing and refreshing all feeds.

I can then turn syncing back on and read the articles, but still don't get any more updates in those feeds while syncing is on :(  
(Version 3.1.7b1)

GEORGE PAPHITIS  Not only the MacUpdate link but the download link on the Newsgator site also produces version 3.1.3  
(Version 3.1.5)

SATELLIO  Updating through NetNewsWire's "Check for updates" application menu item installs the right version (3.1.5).  
(Version 3.1.5)

FOLLEREC  You can also download the latest version through here:

http://ranchero.com/downloads/NetNewsWire3.1.5.dmg

at least, that's what I did.  
(Version 3.1.5)

THALL21  I agree about vidcasts, I'm not sure why this is still an outstanding issue as I would assume it's just a matter of adding .mov, .m4v... to a list of acceptable files to forward to iTunes. Maybe in 3.2  
(Version 3.1.4b5)

ROSENKRIEGER  Well its simple. Newsfire is free and for alot of people the better RSS Reader. So I think that is the real reason for it being free.  
(Version 3.1.4b5)

SERGE   One answer : highly customisable.

I suggest that you download it and read the help menu. You'll be amazed by all the fonctionnalities provided by NetNewsWire. I've also used Vienna for quiet some time and there's no comparison.

Try it, you've got nothing to lose but a little amount of your time. :-)

P.-S. Sorry for the bad English  
(Version 3.1)

GAOSHAN  Thanks for the info. I suppose I will give it a try on your suggestion. Thanks!

No apologies for the English, most native speakers can barely do it correctly and they only speak 1 language... you speak at least two so... no apologies needed.  
(Version 3.1)

DAI YI  Until yesterday, I was using Vienna at work and NNW at home. Vienna impressed me greatly, especially for a free application. But today I didn't hesitate to download a free copy of NNW.

If you try out NNW, you'll see many very similar features sported by Vienna. What I like better about NNW is the finer control users have over subscriptions. Just check the information inspector window and you'll see selections to customize persistence, refreshing, user name/passwords, exporting, as well as podcasts and enclosures. YMMV.

HTH.   
(Version 3.1.1)

MJHARPER  If you download the new beta (3.1.1b1) from http://nnwbeta.com/this is one of two issues that's been fixed.

Hope that helps.  
(Version 3.1)

DOMBI  mjharper: thank you for your quick response. I downloaded the beta and that started up without any issues.

Thanks again!  
(Version 3.1)

MRELCEE  i've been considering purchasing netnewswire..

I guess I am confused now - is this a software product I can license or a subscription that I have to pay annually or I revert to a mode with significantly reduced capability?  
(Version 3.1b31)

SJK  These forums threads might answer some of your questions about NNW upgrades:

http://forum.newsgator.com/Topic30442-9-1.aspx

http://forum.newsgator.com/Topic33324-9-1.aspx  
(Version 3.1b31)

DAI YI  I assume you've tried the normal things to solve the issues you've experienced.

It's too bad, because even when NNW came out with the earliest betas of version 3, I rarely had problems.

Hope you get them resolved soon.   
(Version 3.1b17)

SJK  Thanks for the encouragement.

Yep, I've put in considerable hours dealing with v3 issues in a variety of ways, as my many NewsGator forum posts since v3 was released will show.

Glad to hear v3's been relatively trouble-free for you. I seem to have a knack for finding issues that may only affect or matter to a relatively small number of users. :)

Next thing I'm going to do is test the HTML Archive feature now that I better understand how that's intended to work. If it's a success then I can reduce significant backlog on some busy feeds by lowering their persistence values. Running a leaner v3 will reduce its memory usage and possibly improve stability. Hopefully the memory leak fixes in b17 (which I'll launch soon) make it tolerable again for my cleanup project; b15/b16 were unusable.  
(Version 3.1b17)

DAI YI  Please explain what you mean by "

Vienna does it better." While Vienna is very good, it can't match NNW's features. If you don't need such features, or don't want to pay for them, Vienna represents a good choice of a newsreader. But to claim without any qualification that it's "better" than NNW is subjective and misleading.  
(Version 3.1b16)

BLLOYD  I just tried Vienna... and have a really tough time seeing how you could consider it "better."

Heck, it dumps all your feeds in a linear list in the left pane! That won't work for me with my 100 feeds... totally unmanageable.

Plus, I couldn't find a way with Vienna to set custom refresh times on a per feed or per-group basis.

NNW has a ton of functionality, and if you actually use a large # of feeds and want to customize that (e.g. only refresh personal stuff daily, but refresh work stuff hourly), then NNW gives you tons of options, and Vienna gives you far fewer.

Sure, Vienna is free, but free doesn't affect the quality of the product one iota... it only affects the price.  
(Version 3.1b16)

JB4  I've tried several RSS readers, including Vienna and only NNW allows emt o read the already loaded feeds while new ones are still loading.

The others lock up until all my 179 feeds are loaded.

Intolerable waste of time!  
(Version 3.1b16)

DAI YI  OK, after downloading and using Vienna on my work computer I must concede that it's indeed excellent software. There are a few features in NNW that will keep me using it for now, however. In many respects, Vienna is NNW's league; but Vienna cannot claim to be superior IMHO.  
(Version 3.1b17)

WCITYMIKE  This just seems pretty unacceptable that one site being down will destroy the functionality of the app.

Consider that it is a public beta, my friend.  
(Version 2.1b30)

BEELERS  Also check your sync settings. If you have it set to always replace your feeds from Newsgator, then sure there is a problem. I have it set to syncronize and not replace. I've been getting the error messages from Newsgator, but I'm still getting my subscriptions.

And yes, it's a beta. Always keep that in mind. There is always the stable option you could revert to available on the Ranchero/Newsgator Web site.  
(Version 2.1b32)

MISU  os x 10.4.5  
(Version 2.1b16)

JB4  Not working here, either.

Bummer.

OSX 3.9

iMac G4  
(Version 2.1b16)

ANONYMOUS  Ummm... the comment you are getting is from PithHelmet, not from NNW. PithHelmet does a version check on the application, and throws a dialog if the app is newer than the PH version.

So it's not NNW's issue... PH needs to be updated. Or, you could just change PH's version check, and take your chances.  
(Version 2.0.1)

HERVé S.  how to "change PH version check"?

I went to its prefs from the Safari prefpane, I don't see an obvious way to do this?

Hervé  
(Version 2.0.1)

ANONYMOUS  I agree..I love those icons.  
(Version 2.0)

SJK  Palm PDA synching is one NewsMac feature I'd like to see in NetNewsWire.  
(Version 2.0b22)

YETTELLA  I've always had memory leaks with this application.

This sucks as NNW is really good appart from this.

I've just switched to PulpFiction which doesn't have such problems. You should try it.  
(Version 2.0b10)

ANONYMOUS  this review is hilarious. obviously the reviewer has no idea what he is reviewing  
(Version 2.0b6)

JOEL MUELLER  I'm guessing that the initial reviewer is talking about the added RSS feed display capabilities from within Safari.  
(Version 2.0b6)

ZHIWEN CHONG  No, it doesn't. NetNewsWire is a full RSS aggregation tool.

Safari RSS is an RSS viewer (similar functionality is already available in Firefox). From the Tiger previews, it seems like it doesn't do aggregation.   
(Version 2.0b10)

ANONYMOUS  he certainly gets a 10/10 for comedy from me  
(Version 2.0b10)