SUMNERG  Deep application by a responsive developer. Tinderbox can do many, many things for confirmed geeks as well as more casual users. Alas, no Unicode support, so you're out of luck if you want to work with Chinese, Japanese or many other languages. Also not a "universal" native Intel app; still runs under Rosetta with, some users report, less than optimal results.  
(Version 4.6.1)

F451  Here are some basic notes of the new features in v4.1:

Tinderbox 4.1 lets you

- display even more information in maps and outlines

- use agents and rules to move notes to new containers

- work with dates before 1904

- send email to a specific Tinderbox container, and take actions when it arrives  
(Version 4.1)

LEV  There seems to be a huge amount of misunderstanding about what Tinderbox actually _is_, partly because, to go beyond the basics (which are themselves pretty powerful) does indeed involve a steep learning curve... as in "learning". Like you have to do with any tool.

And partly because Tinderbox is, in the end, more or less whatever you want it to be. Which is why it takes some learning.

Personally, I can't understand why anyone would spring for a CAD/CAM system or Adobe InDesign. Why? Because I don't need them or use them. I do need and use Tinderbox. Its web features -- handy customizable blogging, for example -- are wasted on me. So I don't use them. But the rest, I _do_ use. Since I first ran across Tinderbox I've used it for two full-length books (and currently on a third) and lord knows how many articles, lectures, papers and what-have-you.

The price question is economics 1.01. For the cost of Tinderbox, a commercial organization will buy approximately 20 minutes of my time. Given slack-time, prep. etc., TInderbox is probably representing a capital outlay of one hour of my time. It has saved me that hour time and again; most recently when I wanted to set up some reasonably complex bibliographic stuff. I could have spent an hour searching for off-the-peg software (though there isn't any); instead, I spent the hour in building it myself in Tinderbox. Job done, and fit for purpose.

In other words, YMMV. Perhaps if people thought of Tbx as an _environment_ rather than a standard app., it might clarify things a bit. I know that about 70% of people I show it to say "Oy gottenyu" or something similar; but 20% say "Hell's teeth, that's EXACTLY what I need."

(The other 10% say "Is that a Mac? There's no software for the Mac.")  
(Version 3.5.4)

CA  The enigmatic release notes:

The legacy date elements ^today, ^created, and ^lastModified have been slightly revised.

^created and ^lastModified take two arguments. The first argument is mandatory, and designates which note's date of creation is to be exported. The optional second argument designates a format string.

^created(whichNote[,format string])

^today supports zero, one, or two arguments. It always exports the current date and time at the time of export; in the two-argument form, the note designator is ignored.

^today

^today(format string)

^today(which_note,format_string)  
(Version 3.5.4)

YOXI  I'm sure this app isn't really $192 ??  
(Version 3.5.0)

MACLOVER1.1  Oh Yeah... with a screenshot like that you're not gonna scare anyone away.... DUH... I want things to simplify my brainpatterns, not tie them into a wiry-knot, how nerdy is one supposed to be... ok cool, it'll look like I'm in a Sci-Fi movie when my friends come over, and peak at my screen, they'll be tweaking LOL  
(Version 3.5.0)

CA  Perplexed...

I gave Tinderbox a try but the learning curve is way too steep. The interface is the worst I've ever seen (I'm sold to Cocoa and this Carbon ugliness, oh please!) and the "help" is a joke. Tinderbox was always between me and my ideas. I spent my time wondering "how could I do this?" That said I have nothing against it, it _is_ very powerful.  
(Version 3.0.6)

LEV  If you don't like it, don't understand it, don't need it or can't afford it, don't buy it. It's not as if they are forcing your money out of your pocket. If you *do* have a use for it, then it's not a high price to pay. Or are you little people so angry because you've got used to something for, if not nothing, then very little? Cost/benefit analysis is the way to go, don't you think?

Oh - and re "I[f] you did not have such a "Major" attitude and scheme I would have been more interested in your product"... see, if *you* did not have such an "Infantile" attitude, I would be more interested in your opinion.

For the grown-ups here: Tinderbox is complex and powerful. I've yet to find something it couldn't do within it parameters of use. But, true, it's not for children. Thank goodness.  
(Version 3.0.6)

MICHAEL BYWATER  Tinderbox continues to get better. True, it's not for kiddies who need their hands held, but if you have information to organise and manipulate, and know what you want to achieve, it's 99:1 that Tinderbox will be able to do it. The combination of outlining, visual mapping, extreme user-configurability and intelligent HTML export are unmatched in any other application I've found. With Tinderbox in tandem with DevonThink Pro and Mellel, you have an information-gathering system which will take you seamlessly from research to planning to producing finished output which is simply second to none.

The comments about the built-in Tutorial and manual have some basis in fact, but the online support (both the Wiki and the developer's response) is excellent. The problem is conceptual: if you have an app which can do more or less anything, an exhaustive manual would be inpossible to achieve. When you learn C++ or whatever, you wouldn't expect to then be told what sort of apps to code in it, would you? Same applies to Tinderbox. Think of it as an elegant and powerful language, not for coding but for thinking, and you'll start to get the point.

Of course, if you don't know what you want to think *about*... well, then you will have problems.  
(Version 3.0.1)

MILAN  Masterpiece of uglinesss. Come on, we have Devonthink or Notetaker, we have many notebook-apps to organize and "think", We don't need such carbon-crap.  
(Version 3.0)